In conversation with Omar Al-Zuhairi at the El Gouna Film Festival

The revelation of this year’s Cannes Film Festival was Omar Al-Zuhairi’s Feathers, which won the Grand prize at Critics’ Week and the FIPRESCI award. After that, it has been acclaimed all over the international festivals, but at its Egyptian premiere, at the El Gouna Film festival, Al-Zuhairi found himself engulfed by accusations of showing Egypt in a bad light, however this was unintentional, as the director explained.

When did you start thinking about Feathers My father was a very smart guy, but he was too passive. Deep inside he was a shy guy and he died out of fear. He heard bad news and he had a heart attack. I didn't live with him. He went to London in the 70s, he was this kind of person trying to be away from people. But we lost a lot of moments in our life because of this attitude. I wanted to make a film about being passive, and about being under pressure.

I wrote a line about a woman, her husband became a chicken, and she is stuck with the chicken. The woman is an antihero. She is not conscious of what's happening around her, but she is reacting as a mother. I decided to put a lot of emotions in the film and to follow just my intuition to make it, and to use the art of cinema to go beyond the expectations of our limitations, to make the unrealistic realistic somehow.

It is Egypt but could be anyplace in the world, where poor people are happy, despite living in a shabby circumstance. I'm a citizen of the world. We're now in a very connected world where I believe that all the places are the same. As human beings we live isolated from each other too. We ignore the real essence of humanity. We don't care about each other. I was walking in Paris, and I saw an old guy almost dying. People were walking around him completely uncaring, and this hurt me a lot. Why did nobody help him? In this film I tried to address this sadness in a very poetic, artistic way. Just as in the movie, no one wants to see the smoke coming inside the flat, from the factory. But it's a beautiful shot, artistic shot, it's well shot, well lit, it's a piece of art but it's a bit harmful. It is sad that people must live in that flat. The idea is to put audience in the character’s shoes, to feel what she feels, think what she thinks. We don’t do this enough in real life, but I'm sure this film creates a link between others and this character. You don't judge her at the end, you feel what she feels. We think more about her, and this was very important to me. It's not a film about an idea or about a topic. It's a film about our feelings as human beings, that's why the film is going everywhere, that's why the film is touching a lot of people.

I want to make more films to discover more about human being behaviours-because I am struggling as a human being. I'm struggling because I don't want to live a fake life. I don't want to be in a first world country, perfect, because there is something unreal there. I'm a Mediterranean, I want to go back to the essence of our humanity, to be more ourselves. Now we are trying to close our eyes to others.

Can you tell me more about the woman in the movie? Her husband became a chicken; it looks like a joke but for her it's a huge problem. The chicken must survive because it's a matter of life. Like Kafka, like the Metamorphosis. When you read it, you wanted this insect to survive, which is exactly our humanity at work, and that's how I see my films. I'm like the audience now, I'm discovering myself more. I'm discovering the feedback and it's totally beyond getting a big award, of getting good reviews. It's a matter of life to me, it's coming from my heart.

Can you tell me more about your way of placing the camera? How do you decide where to put the camera, whether long shot or close up? I'm very loyal to cinema as an art technique. I'm very loyal to the classical cinema techniques. I use my camera all the time according to the feelings that I want to feel. Sometimes I use wide shots because I want the audience to think about what's happening or to ask for more, or not to ask questions, but to seek more. There is a moment in the film, it's one of the wide shots, by the pool when she falls. The character is down, I decided to go very wide because I knew that the audience wanted a close-up, but I want to give them a distance to think more about what she feels. If I show to you what she's feeling now, you will lose the idea of thinking with her. The drama in cinema is about what you give to the audience, if I make you laugh easily or cry easily you feel more comfortable. But if I don't make it easy for you, if I force you to think or ask questions, you will feel exactly what you feel because I want the empathy feeling to come after this scene, when she buys the cake for the kids. It's a matter of finding a concept parallel to your character. Every time I placed the camera I was thinking about the relation between the audience and the character. Sometimes you see it very far, sometimes you see extreme close-ups, sometimes you see one-shot scenes, sometimes you see the car running with this green car in the film. It's a matter of being humble and down to earth when you're with your audience.

How about the use of music in the movie?

A lot of art house films are afraid to use music. I wanted to use it as part of the live element in the film. The music, the food, the television, the humour. It is intentional to put the music very high in the film, because it gives you a lot of emotions. You have been acclaimed all over the international festivals, but here in Egypt there has been a hard reaction, and you have been accused of portraying Egypt in a negative way, by showing poverty, injustice, inequality. What’s your answer to all of this? . It was not my intention. It's a piece of art. Maybe, but I don't.

What I feel is that your movie is showing a universal story. It is set in an unidentified location. It could be Egypt, or any place in Europe, or Britain. It could be a corner of Manchester. Yes, in Greece, anywhere in the world. It's about the people. This is the only answer, you don't recognize the world. It's a film about people. And it's not about poverty. It's very important it's not. It's very clear that I'm a kind of filmmaker who doesn't care about a statement. I care a lot about emotions. I wanted people to laugh, to cry, to feel pain, to at some time to get disturbed. This is my intention, my intention is to rediscover the essence of human beings in my films, especially as an Egyptian filmmaker. I grew up here.

What’s your reference in cinema?

Well, they are old Egyptian directors. I like Yusuf Shahin, amazing musicals, they use a lot of songs. I'm a product of this culture. As Egyptians, you know the Egyptians are very proud of themselves because of our history. Egyptians may not know much about Egypt, but they know the pyramids, they know the pharaohs. I am part of that. So as an Egyptian, I present myself as an Egyptian artist. I understand that any art can create a debate, but what is very positive here that in all levels in the country the film is appreciated as a piece of art. I am a product of the Egyptian film school, which is under the management of the Minister for Culture. I'm also the producer, we are trying to present Egyptian new cinema all my generation, and it means a lot to us to get the respect outside our region that we are respected as filmmakers.

I'm a very peaceful person honestly. I'm in my own bubble and I'm really enjoying my time. I was thinking about the period in which this movie is set? I thought it might be the 60s, then in 70s, but then I saw something like an old washing machine, however, I've been told they still use these in Egypt. We also see a Toblerone, Ferrero Rocher, French jam. It looks like it is set in the past but it's not. Exactly. I don't believe in places and time. Because we create the time and we create the place as human beings, and the film is about that. That's why I chose not to give names to the characters. It was intentional to put an old car with old music and mix it with new music. There is also an iPhone and a Big Mac. It's universal, it can happen anywhere, you can take this film, it can fit anywhere in the world. I believe it can be in Egypt, in the US, in France, anywhere.There is this capitalism thing.

I create the film like a book. Anyone can read it and create his or her own perception about it, which is important to me, to take the cinema back to the artistic level. Take the cinema back to be an art, not to be a tool to make statements. The cinema is an art, it's visual art, sound art, philosophy art and poetry, and for me this is the cinema. It's full of things, and that's what I made. It was like having a lot of paintings with some sounds and emotions, and it created magic. The woman steals French jam, Ferrero Rocher, a lollipop, a piece of fresh meat, so there is this abundance of food, but poverty is a consequence. It was intentional to have that. It was part of the game in the film to put you in a state of “OH The French jam and the Ferrero Rocher and the Chupa, the lollipops, and the dog which is an Argentinian dog.” I make films for humanity; my film is international co-production with international artistic input—I mean the historical relationship between Egypt and France in the culture relationship. My producers are people of the world too, so I knew that my film is going to be everywhere, and they want to talk to everyone. We are very connected now. We all watch the same platforms, we all have the social media, we are very close. Here you are in Egypt, you have the same quality somehow, you have the same facilities. You are not in a primitive place, it's all the same now. Even now, Egypt as a country, we are developing a lot.

What I noticed is that Egypt is Africa, there are some African elements. Yes, Egypt is Africa, and that is in the movie. I have this feeling about Africa. It's a good question, about Africa and about the North African region. I cannot ignore what happened to us, to the colony that happened. I know the continent very well. It's not about the culture. It's about these amazing people. African people are very smart and very kind. They just want to live. They want to be free, and they have this amazing relationship with nature. We are people of the Earth, and if you think about Africa, it's a place that didn't get the chance to be in the game. Africa was always labelled as a place of second-hand people. We are not second-hand people. We, as North Africans, as Arabs, as Middle Eastern, as Mediterranean people, we are this mix of culture connected to the south of Africa. We have a very strong identity, you cannot ignore, for example, Mahamat Saleh Haroun, A Screaming Man, a masterpiece. You cannot ignore this strong cinema, and there's a strong music, there is strong culture. We have identity here. When you see an African from everybody, you know what we wear, what we eat, what we sing. But I want the Africans, and me as an African, to break this mould, to be proud of being African. It's very important, and that's why I talk a lot about my region as North Africa, because it is the right timing now to speak loudly and to be proud of our African origin. A lot happened in the past, I feel that we didn't get the proper apology for what happened. Always I feel it in my heart. I still feel it now when I go abroad. I know it's a cultural problem, but I still feel it and it hurts me a lot. We have a lot of genius minds in this continent in all aspects, but I feel now we are getting more our appreciation and the appreciation for me is to bond more with the world through our art, through our ideas, through our work. But I cannot take it from my heart, and you can understand what I mean, and it's not political by the way. It's human to human. I don't want anyone to think about colour or race or that we have different minds, no? We were under this kind of terrorist that came in the past to all our region. It's a great region and honestly the new generation, my generation is very optimistic, because the region now is full of hope. What I really like is that the new generation is working a lot. We work a lot now. We don't complain. There is something going, there is a lot of appreciation in the country, outside the country.

This movie is also an homage to women.

Yes. I made this film as a son and as a husband. My mother raised me, and my grandma, so I'm a product of two women. I'm married and for me also I'm a product of my wife. I love her, and my life became something else when I appreciated them more. I think for me I believe deep inside that there is no difference between a man and a woman. I don't understand really and for me feminism is a very complicated issue because I don't understand why we discuss this. I know why we are getting into debates, and we are trying to get a lot of rights, but it's so ridiculous that we are still discussing this. It cannot be an option. Equality cannot be optional. We are all just trying to survive. My film is a story of an antihero who is trying to survive, with her own fears, in a very absurd, tough situation. I like that people are saying it's a feminist film. Some people are saying it's one of the most feminist films we have seen. But you don't have any other character, you don't hate the men in the film, you don't victimize any of them, you don't judge. You judge the humanity at the end of the film, which is good.